Creative Avoidance

In today's episode we're talking about stress, uncertainty and the ways we avoid it.

Dale Sidebottom: All right,


Welcome back to the Dale
and Kyle show today.

We're going to be talking
about 99 problems.

Before I get into that.

My name's Dale Saba.

I'm joined by my good mate.

Kyle Wood: Hello.

Dale Sidebottom: Hello.

I call great to see you and
hear from you as always now.

Um, I'm going to do more of this sort
of questioning today, mate, because we

just had a little chat off and I feel
like I've got a lot of problems and 99

is probably not enough at the moment.

I don't want to be negative.

Cause I think, um, yeah, if we just listen
to negativity all the time and um, I

know I always feel a little bit better
when I'm productive and I feel that.

Feeding some good questions that
you today is going to really

help me and kicks out my week.

So how are you winning?

Kyle Wood: I'm very good.

Thank you.

Uh, oh, like, man, I try to leave.

We, you asked me how I was and I think
we've talked about this last night.

Totally did the thing of like,
uh, yeah, well, I, yeah, I

am doing a ride this week.

Um, and that's probably what I want to
talk about because we were chatting about

how, uh, I've lost my train of thought.


Dale Sidebottom: Aren't you going to
go with your fight when we're in a

state or like you're going to school.



Kyle Wood: Thank you.

So when we, yeah, stuck, you know,
in the shit we're in the swamp, we're

in the Maya way, it can be, you know,
it's maybe not the best time to be

like sharing publicly how I feel.

I mean, we, to be able to do this opposite
on social media, but if you're aligned

on your social media comments and likes
to make you feel better, that's something

else we can unpack at some point.

Um, but I think, yeah, that's
the time to have personal or.

Conversations with friends and people,
you trust the therapists, things

like that, um, to help with that.

Uh, and I guess, yeah, what we want to
keep on this podcast is, um, We still want

to share when we've been through shit,
but we want to share, you know, at the

afterwards, like what do we do to help?

Cause I think that's what you want
to know when you're in it as well.

You want to know like where's the light
at the end of the tunnel, you know, w

what direction can I stop moving in?

And I think you've done a great
job as well, Dale in the past at

sharing, um, things like that.

And you're still in a
lockdown at the moment.

And I think it's very natural.

To be like here emotions even day to day
are going to be different on Groundhog

day going, especially working from home.

Plus again, I definitely have those days
where I come in the office and like, ah,

um, anyway for me, what, what started
happening was I noticed that I was, I

was being very, like very busy and not
necessarily like busy, productive, Busy.

So by that, I mean, like not necessarily
working on my business and doing

things to make it better or improve or
whatever, although that was part of it.

And, and certainly I felt good
when I was working on my business

because that was an area of my life.

I felt like I could change,
whereas the rest of my life.

You know, sort of was, was out of control.

But when I went into the computer
and then to the online world, he was

things I could impact and change.

And so they, when I was coming back
out of, um, in, into the rest of

my life, um, I really was having.

Compulsion to be doing something,
cleaning something, cooking

something, uh, gardening.

Um, you know, I, I play board games
on this website with my friends,

you know, on their playing, you
know, like got my phone out and, you

know, taking turns on board games.

Like you're like checking reef, refreshing
that's that's in some ways my Instagram

like on like, well, is it my turn yet?

Is it my turn yet?

Um, what else was,

Dale Sidebottom: you were masking all
your feelings and emotions by being

Kyle Wood: busy?



I wouldn't even let myself
sit down and watch TV.

Cause that felt too passive.

It had to be something active that
kind of like tricked my brain into

thinking it was being productive.

Uh, and, and th that feeling
of like just relaxing reading

a book, watching a movie or.

You know, just sitting there
with my daughter and not too

much of anything while she
played was just so uncomfortable.

And I couldn't even bear the thought of,
of facing that level of uncomfortability,

which was really different for me.

Like in the past, I'd be
like, I'll notice, become

aware of something like that.

And I'd be like, okay,
I'm going to work on that.

And it was like, even the thought
of trying to build into like a, a

mindfulness habit or some sort of
relaxation habit was just like, Yeah, just

Dale Sidebottom: couldn't couldn't so it
was sort of like you weren't, you didn't

want to allow yourself to be bored.

And I think that's a, that's a really
common thing, particularly today with

our devices and our phones and any
spare second that we, uh, uh, like I'm

not doing something, what do you do?

You naturally go through your phone?

Um, and I think, like you're saying
you were scared of what that feeling

would be like, so you just didn't
want to allow yourself to get.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

I was scared of what, what was underneath
because, you know, and I guess I knew I

was struggling, but I was afraid of yeah.

What, what, what that pain or, you
know, being confronted with with

that, we, I would feel like, so.

Did you

Dale Sidebottom: face it?

So once he, obviously we're talking
about it now, um, that's, you've

obviously overcome that and you've
figured out things that you need to do.

And I'm sure there's a, I don't know,
I'm just guessing, but different daily

routines that are helping you do that.

Is that something that

Kyle Wood: I feel like I I'm.


Um, yeah.

And I'll talk about that.


I'd like to share sort of, but I
think, um, yeah, will share about that.

So for me, I obviously in my
head, I was like, yeah, I need

to start meditating again.

Cause that'll help me create
that, that more mindfulness again.

But I just couldn't, I couldn't even,
because I had to be busy all the time,

even the idea of sitting down for
three minutes and meditating, it's

just like, I can't, I can't do it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's sort of where I was.

So I was chatting to a friend of mine and
we're talking about it, this like, why?

Cause I, I was, I was fixated
on, okay, I just need the right

meditation routine or like the right.

You know, I don't have the right app
or I need like a different approach

or a different style of mindfulness.

You know, you talk about player, what day?

Like, you know, doing something else.

Um, And I was like, oh yeah,
that's, that's just what I need.

But I wasn't, I guess still noticing what
was causing that block in the first place.

And so for me, it was, um,

it was a lot of, we talked about
this before a lot of shooting.

Like I was like, I should, or I
need to start this meditation habit.

And so then, you know, There's like
a natural resistance that comes up.

Um, when we like should, should,
should, um, I should be doing this.

I should be doing that.

Um, and we've got enough on our plate.

And I think, you know, with the
state of Australia, Australia at the

moment, even avoiding the news is
still like a low level of stress.

Like an anxiety, just, just this constant.

Um, and it's, it's
exhausting and super tight.

And I think that in the past,
maybe my willpower would have

overcome that resistance, but it was
already kind of staving off this.

It's already exhausted from this
like low level stress that we've

got going on at the moment.

Um, so yeah, it was really chatting
to my friend and realizing.

That I wasn't giving myself, um, that
permission to slow down and that I needed

to come, not from that, like should ankle,
but more from that, this is something.

It's hard to put it

Dale Sidebottom: really
done the season I get too.

So I get to slow down.

Like I get to meditate instead of what I
mean, like when you frame something as a

negative or you put pressure on yourself
and it doesn't all, it becomes a chore.

If you reframe it as like it's a
luxury or it's something that you

privileged to have the time to do.

I get to go on a podcast I get
to do, you know what I mean?

Like little things like that in a
way, reframe something, it really

hits those chemicals in your brain.

And it turns around from being a
task that, you know, you have to

do like a, to do list one that
you don't want to do instead of

like, oh, I can't wait to do that.

And I know it seems silly, but
little things like that when

you are in a bit of a funk.



Kyle Wood: Yeah.

And I think, yeah, just chatting to
someone else about it as well, and

getting like a different she's a coach.

So that helped because she knew the right
questions to ask and things like that.

But yeah, someone, a friend like that
can be really helpful in times like that.

And the next morning, um, like I have my
shower and instead of like, going back

in the kitchen, came into my office where
I've got a little meditation spot set up

and I was like, all right, I'm gonna sit.

And, um, and do this meditation
and it was such a weird feeling.

Cause it was like, it was just like,
Ugh, shit, I really needed this.

Like when I actually got to stop,
there was actually like pleasure in

that because I was actually, I, yeah,
because I had been going, going, going,

going, going, I hadn't like just rested.

And I had like a, a guided meditation
on, which helps us, has like the.

He does music with it, which I
think is like the binaural beats,

which sort of gets you into that.

I'm going to start saying stuff you
that's wrong, but anyway, it gets you

into that meditative state faster.

Um, and it, it, the meditation
was for a busy mind as well.

I was like, this is a perfect one because
I feel like that's what's happening.

My mind is going, going, going,
and I'm kind of escaping it.

But by looking at, you know, finding other
activities to busy me, And those one line

in the meditation where towards the end,
where you sort of keep coming back to

like noticing your thoughts and he does
this sort of helpful practice where you

label the thoughts, you might be like
thinking judging, uh, all record playing.

So like once you become
aware of the thought and then

you just sort of let it go.

And that's, that's kind of a nice way to
like, acknowledge the thought rather than

like dismissing it as we sit altogether.

And then at the end he's like, oh,
I noticed that there's awareness

before the thought and that there's
awareness after the thought.

So like, you have a moment of awareness
before the thought and MERS, and then he's

like, and then notice that you are not
your thoughts, that you are the awareness,

like you're that awareness underneath.

And that was just like, I mean,
I've done, I've done Zen stuff,

meditation, I've done Buddhist.

Like, but yeah, it just, I needed
to hear that again at that moment.

And that was just so freeing that it's
like these thoughts that I've been

terrified of, terrified of spending
time alone with just being like, oh,

that's not, that's not actually me.

That's not who I am.

Um, yeah, that was, that was a
big, that was a moving moment for.

Dale Sidebottom: And have you
continued doing that daily since?

Or is it something that you just
do when you feel you need it

Kyle Wood: with trying to do it?

Um, H H day I've also found
a good walking meditation.

So that's a good, you
might like that, Dale.

Um, so I do

Dale Sidebottom: the same.

You don't shut your highs

Kyle Wood: no night.

So I do headphones and my
headphones have this, like here.

So I can still hear like the rest of my
surroundings, but I'm also getting, I

think again, within music unit, you want
to have both ears in it the way it works.

And, um, he.


He just sort of guides you through like
awareness of your body as you're walking.

So instead of like sitting there, you're
going through your awareness of your body.

And then I don't know, it's
like the music or something.

It's like being a little kid again.

It's like, oh my gosh, look at that tree.

And like a bird or flat and just stuff.

It's the same walk I do down
to the beach that I've done a

bazillion times suck moved here
and I just don't take any of it in.

But then when we're like,
when I'm listening to that,

I just have the awareness.

It's like, oh my gosh, Uh, planet, there's
a world outside of my head or outside of

the, you know, the house that I live in.

Uh, yeah, I've just really
been enjoying that one as well.

So that's a good one.

When I don't actually want to sit,
I'm feeling resistance to like sitting

still, I I'm always up for a walk or
I'll even use it commuting to get a

coffee because the meditation is only
about 12 minutes, but it takes me like

20 minutes to walk to the coffee shop.

So, um, yeah.

Uh, yeah, that's been a good one too.

They have good old sort of backup.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah.


And I suppose that active,
you're still moving your body.

So you're getting sort of the,
the mindful benefits as well.

As of, so with that all being said,
Was that enough, just slowing down

to kickstart you back on or has there
been other things you've done as well?

That, um, yeah.

Cause I'm keen to try that walking.

I don't really feel like sitting in
the mind when doing your meditation

Kyle Wood: like that in the house.


Dale Sidebottom: I don't really
pay for that, but if 12 minutes

I can dedicate that on a walk.

No dramas.


Was there anything else that,
you know, you've done it.

Kyle Wood: No, I think that's
actually been part of it because I was

thinking, you know, I need to meditate.

You know, I need to spend
less time on my phone.

And I, uh, I like all these
things, too many, too many shirts

that I would want it to change.

And so just changing this one
thing, um, has been really helpful

and just trusting that, like, if
I just focus on that process, um,

but you know, I'm already feeling.

I feel like more grateful.

I've noticed like more
of a sense of gratitude.

I have noticed, I think because these
other emotions are coming to the

surface, like surface, I've been a bit
grumpier since starting this, but I'm

also dislike allowing that and being
like, it's probably just cause I'm sure.

Because I'm actually allowing
this stuff to come up rather than

discovering myself out, honestly.


So I'm just sort of trusting.

All right.

I'm just going to do one thing,
not going to like stop, like,

you know, I think we do that.

We see if it will do that with breath,
from the fitness professional, um,

you know, people, you know, start
going there, go to the gym and

they won't go to the gym, commit to
going to the gym three times a week.

They'll commit to go to
the gym every single day.

And then they'll, you know, and the
new diet and the new thing and our.

I feel like crap and I still do it.

So yeah, I think that's something also
I'm trying to do is just like, all right.

Just one thing and, um,
stick to that and do it well.



And that's helping me become
more aware of everything else.

And then same thing.

Like I just trying to notice.

Um, so when I'm noticing that should,
or I'm noticing, uh, an activity or

behavior that I'm like, oh gosh, you
know, I shouldn't be doing this or I

should do something else right now.

Like instead of doing that, I'm just like,
oh, I'm just going to become aware of it.

And so checking in with myself and
sometimes that's enough to like change

activity or sometimes, you know, I'll keep
doing it, but at least I've had that like

moment of awareness, which I think is.

Dale Sidebottom: Um, and I suppose
when you are going through, oh, no,

you're not in the best head space
that you know of the things that make

you, that the work for you normally.

Um, and I think we're aware of, and
like you said, you should, should,

should, should that simple rephrase.

I get to, and just select one domain.

You don't try and be a hero and
go and do it all, like you said,

but I get to do this daily.

Do that make a commitment?

Like you said, it's, it's not Willy nilly.

Um, it's not germane.

If you're going to learn a new
language or ride a bike, you

don't just do it once a month.

And then you pick that skill up.

It's something you need to do daily.

Um, forming that positive
habit of routine.

It's like having a shower, we
shower every day to be clean.

It's the same with, you know, you're
meditating to clear that noise in

your head or to reframe so you can
slow down instead of blocking it up,

wrapping it up, putting to the side
and, and not letting it come out

because we know when we do that, that
eventually comes out bigger, better.

Stronger than ever.

And it knocks us for six, so
we've laid it coming out and

you've got to feel those emotions.

And like, if you said, like, I know
the ups and downs, I'm going through

that when I do allow myself to feel
it, that if you're pretty negative

and you feel pretty bad, but I need
to go through those emotions because

if I don't allow myself to then who
they're eventually going to come out

and it's not going to be pretty good.

Kyle Wood: Uh, yeah, it comes out
sideways and we're, I think, you know,

as, as men, we say that a lot as well.

Like, um, the, the stoic command
of stoicism has got some good stuff

in it, but yeah, the, the sort of
idea of the stoic man who never

shows these emotions, uh, yeah,
it's not, it's not super helpful.

What movie did we watch the other
day that I had a good cry at?

And that was, that was big
for me because I feel like.

A few years ago, I was like very, I was
able to cry easily, which I thought was

a good thing because it actually like
helped me move through emotions and grief

and sadness, and then I'd be all right.

And I'd feel better.

And then, um, I think, you know,
becoming a dad, he, you go through

that period of like sleep deprivation.

You really do have to like, um, or
up, and I've had more trouble like

crying when I feel sad about things.

And, uh, we.

Um, actually, I've got something to share.

That's made me that's remind
me, I've got something to share.

And of this podcast you liked
how I shared it was a real story.

Uh, but yeah, crying.


W it was like a kid's movie
watch with Stacy and 80.

We're watching 80, of course,

which I guess that's going to get
anyone, you know, the state of the

entities, like saying goodbye to them.

And I was like, the tears
coming down my eyes.

I was watching.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah.

Kyle Wood: Yeah.

So, um, so that, that I saw
that I saw was a good sign.

Like we're talking about
feeling your emotions, so, yeah.

Dale Sidebottom: Yeah.

And that's sad.

I think it's important to
be able to let those out.

And sometimes they come out with.

When you don't expect it.

I know of called a few times throughout
the last 18 months, just at random

times because I've been locked.

It, you just, you feel like it's
unfair and things you're going

through, but that's in a way
it's, you've got to do that.

You've got to allow that to happen.

Um, and if it's watching a, or it's
sitting in your office by yourself, when

you feel like everything's just going
pish, but it doesn't really matter.

You need to allow that to happen.


What's this quote, mate,
give me a quick story.

Kyle Wood: So last week, since that sad
news, I had a, like a member, you know, I

think I've talked before about, I went to.

To this camp in America, it was
like summer camp for adults.

Anyway, one of the other regular
attendees of that, um, passed

away from brain cancer last week.


Um, she left, uh, she did the other night.

I don't know if she scheduled this and
she had a friend posted it or, but she,

she posted to her, to her Facebook wall.

Uh, I messaged, she had pre-written
about, um, just sharing, um,

Uh, her sort of final thoughts
on life towards the end.

Um, it is kind of like, I don't, do
you want to hear the whole thing or

you want me to just read the end?

Dale Sidebottom: Well,
I read the good bits.

Don't give me too much cause
they know I've got to process it.

I'm not that intelligent
on eight punch punchline.

Kyle Wood: I feel like I'm yeah.


I'll I'll I'll skip down here a bit.


So she's talking about, she, she
talks about, um, reaching the end

of her life and this idea that she
hadn't found the love of her life.

And so, and then she talks about
friendships and some insights on that.

So I'll read these last couple sentences.

So she says, um, Surround yourself
with people who contradict that unkind

voice, people who see your light and
remind you who you are, an amazing soul.

Learn how to receive these
reflections from your people

because they are speaking the truth.

Love yourself, no matter how weird
and silly it might feel every morning.

Give yourself a hug before
your feet hit the floor.

Look deeply into your eyes in the mirror.

Say to yourself out loud.

I trust.

That voice in your head
might say, you're a dork.

Ignore it.

As I prepare to leave this body and
a Bach on this mysterious journey of

my soul, I hope these observations
from my deathbed at somehow useful.

What I know deep in my bones is
that learning to love myself has

led me to be able to say this.

I'm so proud of how I lived.

May you feel the same when you head out
on your soul journey too, until then

enjoy the ride and always eat dessert
first, especially if there's pie.

Dale Sidebottom: I like that.

It's like one of my favorite
books always eat ice cream

first or something like that.

Really leave little off.

Don't be a, I think that
people can relate to that.


Look, I'm not telling everyone to go
and eat ice cream or cake, but what it

really means is if you want something.


Kyle Wood: Yeah.

Uh, earlier on in it, she,
she kinda refers to there.

She talks about, are you running
towards life or running away from death?

That was a piece of advice that
was given to her early on her

journey with battling, sorry.

She actually says, don't say battling
cancer on her journey with cancer.

Um, she, yeah.

And so that was a cool.

That that helped to sort of
come to terms with death.

And also, yeah, this concept of like, you
know, we were talking before this call

about fear, like we spent so much of our
lives in fear, fear of what other people

will think about us, fear of, um, Fear of
doing the things that we, we want to do.

Um, and that's that, that sort of fear
of, of death, but we are, what are

we, what are we doing to enjoy life?

How are we running towards.

Dale Sidebottom: Um, well,
it's just reframing really.

Isn't it like, like your friend that it's
not battling cancer, that it's the next

stage germane and how can she enjoy that?

And it's like, instead of saying, I should
do this, I get to like, and I know you

don't want to say I'll get to do cancer.

Like it's not that, but that's the
reality that some people face other

people will face other things.

And you can look at it one way or you
can think poor me and by the sand things

away, she's reframed that and lived
it, that she's left on good terms.

Whereas a lot of people wouldn't be
liked and that's the power of changing

the way you perceive something.

Um, and a lot of time it's not fair, but a
lot of time you can't control that anyway.

So you might as well get on
with it the best way you can.

And that's as hard as it is.

People are going through all
different things, but you've got

an opportunity, I suppose, to.

Think about the way you act and turn
up each day because that's on you.

It's not on anyone else.

They control maybe other things
that you control your attitude

and the way you view things.

Kyle Wood: Yep.


Dale Sidebottom: Very good.

Very good.

Thanks for sharing again.

Great man.

Appreciate your insights.

And it was, as you said, it'd be nice.

I feel better now just for
accents and questions and actively

Kyle Wood: listening and
ask how you're feeling.


Dale Sidebottom: I've actually, you
know, I've challenged myself in a,

in a different way that, um, yeah, I
probably would not have done that if

I hadn't done this podcast with you.



If people are always singing,
you sort of get a bit of a funk.

Like I find myself at the moment, um, do
something that, you know, will make you

feel better, but, um, and that might be,
if you don't have the motivation, do it

by yourself, then you might have a buddy,
a friend, a partner, somebody like that,

that will just by doing it or help you.

So, thanks for thanks.


Kyle Wood: very welcome.

Good to see you, buddy.

Likewise, say

Dale Sidebottom: guys.

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