In today's episode we're talking about stress, uncertainty and the ways we avoid it.

(You may notice a new show format: We're shedding the 'business' style podcast name so we can get more personal. We hope these conversations between two father, business men and friends are valuable in your own lives as a parent, business owner and human being.)

Dale was feeling a bit flat a the start of this session so we decided to use a bit of a trick that can help you feel better: asking questions and being interested in someone else.

Kyle had recently had some insights about keeping busy in order to avoid his emotions so the pair kick off talking about that and Kyle shares what has been helping him be more present.

If you're feeling stressed, anxious or uncertain about the state of the world right now, this one is for you.